On the way up north this past weekend, our discussion briefly turned to a concept idea raised by a family member. The idea was that the Catholic Church should be more relaxed, and if they were, perhaps they would not be losing parishioners left and right, and would be growing. Our discussion went into a hypothetical view on how such an approach would go do. As if the church might just one day say... "Ok we're wrong on the abortion thing. After all, Its not murder, its just killing unborn babies".
It was at this point our conversation was stopped cold. From the back seat, from E1 came
That's not right. No kill baby
As Ripley said, "Believe it or Not!"
Peace
By the way, the Catholic church is not losing people left and right, they are in fact growing according to recent numbers.
5 comments:
The Catholic faith has been evolving for over 2000 years! For example, "Vatican II occurred because the realities inside the church door were not mixing with the realities outside the church door". Gone were the days of Latin masses, etc.
Your point about Catholic views on abortion is interesting. I concur that the Church should not change their stance on abortion; however, it would be reasonable for the church to promote forms of birth control that prevent conception.
You could argue that the Church rejects sex for purposes other than procreation, therefore they should not allow birth control. However, I would argue that the "realities outside the church", such as teenage pregnancies, AIDS (condoms), and vasectomies have made such teachings obsolete.
I doubt that the family member meant that the church should change its BELIEFS, rather that some of the practices (as the other commenter stated) have been evolving as society changes and certain things become obsolete. If we didn't have Vatican II, people would still be saying mass in Latin (no-one would understand anything) and frankly, many would feel more distant from the church entirely. Should we go back to the days of no meat every friday, fasting throughout lent and never associating with lutherans? We live in a far more diverse world that we realize. Our children will grow up in a world completely different and filled with a rainbow of cultures, beliefs and ideas. Should the church just stand still? The church is a living breathing collection of Catholics from across the globe. Changing core beliefs such as the divinity of Christ, the belief in the Holy Spirit and the Sacraments as well as the Sanctity of Life will never change. I think to suggest those things are off topic from the real meaning of the initial comment.
some interesting comments. Firstly, read up about Vatican II, to learn more about what its purpose really was. Skip the wikipedia version, and read the good stuff. As far as the church promoting forms of birth control that prevent conception. Well evidentally we've got a cafeteria Catholic, or a non-Catholic commentator. The Catholic church in the US has and continues to promote 100% effective forms of birth control that prevent conception. Back to the books or wait for a post on that topic. As to the second commentator. Very well written. I wonder though... Should people of the Jewish faith change their diets just because its the IN thing? or because properly prepared kosher food is harder to come by? Aside from Judaism, Catholicism is one of the oldest Churches around. Were a cafeteria catholic would say "practices" a faith-filled Catholic would say "tradition". The same holds for many of the "practices" in Judaism. Its 2000 years of faith based tradition. Mass is allowed, still today, in Latin. In fact there are movements to go back more to the Latin rights. Fastings on friday? 100% I'm all for it. If you want a non-Catholic based view on the faith and spiritual based benefits of fasting, read up on or speak with someone of the Muslim faith. Never associating with Lutherans? Not sure where that's coming from, since the Catholic church is constantly and continually working with all Christian denominations toward the "reunion" of all Christians. Great posts though. One last thing.. Abortion predates Christianity. Read the Torah or the old testament, or if your interested let me know I'll site some specific references.
Peace
First, if abstinence was 100% effective, abortion wouldn't even be relevant.
Also, I'm not sure how abortion predating Christianity is relevant.
Perhaps after reading the Torah you will be able to explain why Jewish dietary laws exist? I'll give you a hint: the Torah doesn't give a reason. Perhaps you could also explain why sex can't be had during a woman's menstruation (unless you are a reformed Jew.....which means that you did change according to the "in" thing).
It is interesting that you suggest speaking with someone of the Muslim faith. After all, what would is the penalty in Islam for apostasy (by criticizing fasting)?
Seems like the winds have blown some people off course. For the record, I didn't use the word "abstinence" you did. And in fact, abstinence is only one of a few methods of suggested by the USCCB. As an editorial note. Abstinence is not 100% effective? I think you need to go back to mama and papa and have another talk about the Birds and the Bees. Abortion is and has been an abhorrent practice that predates Christianity. That's the point. Being pro-life, is not something created by the Catholics.
Dietary restrictions in the Torah. You couldn't have made my point better for me. The point (which you missed, but reinforced for me nonetheless) is that both the Jewish and Christian religions are steeped in not only written scripture, but laws (a.k.a Canon laws), but also tradition. The traditions are very important to these religions. Lastly to the comment about Fasting and Islam. You've jumped off the deep end there. The point (which you missed again), is to speak with them. Not about what you may perceive as oppressive or archaic practices, but about what they gain from fasting. In the people I work (and speak with) daily, they'll tell you about about the great benefits of fasting. The majority of the US cannot relate. They are to wrapped up in their consumerism and feelings of entitlement. The old addage "Anything worth having is worth working for" is hardly applied anymore.
Thanks for the comments, its been fun. Perhaps next time the points will be better understood (and maybe better conveyed)
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